debt reduction doesn't require balance, just that the economy is growing faster than the debt, while the plan does put the debt to gdp ratio on a downward trajectory, it probably doesn't need to be quite as steep. ezra klein, this is a big deal, and you're here on this show to prove it is a big deal. you would never come out this late if this wasn't a huge deal. >> absolutely not. >> this is huge. the debt is the reason we have to do all these terrible things to medicare, which we republicans really love. it is just the debt is forcing us to do it. there's no rationale. >> if you read paul ryan's budget, and i have read every iteration, the first ten pages of the budgets is the same, this is a very apocalyptic, mad max scenario about the kind of debt crisis america faces. a crisis which the currency is completely devalued. we print and print money, inflation races up, financial markets collapse. it is compared to that where block granting, repealing obama care, voucherizing medicare, doing all of the things he does, in comparison to the debt crisis, all of that is fine, moderate, it